Quint Smits
Tilburg University 
Tilburg, The Netherlands (51.5° N, 5.0° E)

featuring Hakan Bacakoglu, Senior Program Manager, Sikorsky, New York City (40.7° N, 74.0° W)

I had an opportunity to lead a career conversation with Hakan Bacakoglu who is a senior program manager at Sikorsky Aircraft Corporation in New York City. Our exchange has taught me to take more risks and take advantage of the opportunities in college where I can fully focus on studying as those opportunities may not arise again when I have a full time job. Another important takeaway for me was the importance of finding mentors in my field who might later open up some career doors.

Hakan grew up in Turkey where he went to school at the Middle East Technical University in Ankara where he got his undergraduate degree in mechanical engineering. Afterwards, he attended the University of Waterloo in Canada towards his postgraduate degree in systems design engineering. Since then, he has worked for the leading aerospace/space companies such as Boeing and Sikorsky.

When I asked him about the conflict-free work environment at the International Space Station, unlike on earth, and how they achieve this, he mentioned that there is a form of common understanding that the priority is building and maintaining the space station with high quality and safety standards. He also highlighted that there is no politics in space; they only focus on the main mission, which is creating a working microgravity environment for research and development to improve life on earth.

As a student in the field of artificial intelligence (AI), I had some questions about the societal impact of AI replacing certain jobs like driving for Uber. In response, Hakan talked about the importance of implementing regulations that would create an adjustment period for people who work in those jobs to give them a chance to properly adapt to the changes, which I found to be a well-thought-out answer.

I feel very fortunate to have had such an insightful interview with this accomplished person, and I certainly will be putting the takeaways from our conversation to good use in my own journey.

Highlights from the interview:

You have done some research at the University of Waterloo in the field of artificial intelligence (AI) and robotics. Can you tell me a little bit about that side?

On the space station, a big deal is given to the vision systems. Because the astronauts are not out there, we have to rely on cameras. There’s a lot of cameras on the space station, especially for robotics operations. If you’re going to manipulate an object in space, the robot or the astronaut staying in the space station need to know where that object is. So, using the machine intelligence computer vision, you calibrate your cameras and manipulate a robot to go and grab the object. I extended that research a bit more [at the University of Waterloo]. Canada is very rich in natural resources. Yet, we Canadians are very conscious about recycling. So as part of that, I did research on a vision system combined with ultrasonic sensors. Imagine a recycling company, and there’s plastics, paper, and glass going on the conveyor belt. My research was to use actual intelligence analysis to identify if that object on the conveyor belt is paper, plastic, or glass or not recyclable, and to grab that object using computer vision at the right speed. It’s a faster, more accurate, and cheaper operation for the recycling industry. Artificial intelligence played into how to classify and categorize this object in terms of what kind of recyclable material that is.

You have worked at the Johnson Space Center for some time. Can you tell me how your day was like there?

Their space station program has international partners: NASA, European Space Agency, Japanese Space Agency, Canadian Space Agency, and Russian Space Agency. The Johnson Space Center is an administrative hub, but some technical activities are also conducted there. Our offices were at Boeing; so, we didn’t really spend our entire time at the Johnson Space Center. A couple of days a week, I went there for technical meetings or program meetings, or to train astronauts on the use of robotic systems. The Canadian Space Agency is the manufacturer of the robotic system on the space station, and thus we trained NASA astronauts so that they can use the vision system and the robotic system efficiently. The astronauts train in a big pool inside the Johnson Space Center, called the Natural Buoyancy Lab, where they have a mockup of the ISS to get the feeling of microgravity artificially.

This is almost a philosophical question. There are a lot of conflicts on Earth, and space seems to be an exception. All the countries cooperate on space projects, such as the ISS. What do you think how they keep it cool in space?

When I worked on ISS projects, at my level, we were just focusing on the work. We weren’t focusing on politics. We had a common understanding, a common vision about building the space station with high quality and safety. Everybody’s purpose was that. No politics, no other ambitions. Get the job done so that humanity can have a working microgravity environment for research and development and for improving the quality of life on Earth because a new space discovery and the technology you get to work on for space operation may come back as real, day to day technologies we use in our [daily lives].

Shortly after working on the ISS, you went to Washington State University to get a degree in engineering. Why did you get another degree?

It was a certification program; it wasn’t a full degree. I have a master’s degree from the University of Waterloo. My research at the University of Waterloo taught me how to attack the unknowns. You don’t have an exhibitable model to solve a problem, you have to understand what the problem is, you have to model the problem, you have to find solutions to the problem. So, it’s really broadened my perspective, in terms of how we’re going to identify and solve a problem. It really satisfied my scientific thirst, per se, because I produced a lot of publications after that, in computer vision, pattern analysis, and so forth. As you progress through your career steps, your goals and interests may change a little bit. I realized that I was good at people management, at coordinating, and at sequencing tasks in a logical way. So, I realized that I had better strength in managing projects. I had two options in front of me, an MBA or a masters in engineering management. I chose engineering management. It gave me additional skills of project management, budgeting, and people management. Basically, you redefine your interests, ambitions, and visions for future as you go through your [career] because you’re not static. As humans, our feelings, ambitions, and desires for future change. Since I realized that I was better in managing projects, I wanted to have that second certificate. I still use my skills I learned at school.

Do you think that in some areas like space or health, the money factor should just be turned off so that we can spend all the resources in developing those fields?

I think you should do the opposite because there are many moving parts in human society; sociological developments, technological developments, and cultural developments. So, you have to invest in all of these traits. The amount you spend on each of these skills may fluctuate, but you have to keep your tabs on for every field. Now we have a COVID-19 situation, and since last year, we’ve been working from home. Having internet and the Zoom technology enabled me to conduct my business from home as efficiently as I could do from work. So, you never know how these technologies can turn into a very usable application. We have to do our business, and we have to make sure all parts move at the same time. Maybe not at the same speed, but they have to move [together].

Do you really enjoy your work?

Yes, I’m one of the lucky ones. I have worked for good companies in Canada and in the US, and I went to good schools. I was lucky to be able to do what I wanted to do.

What are some skills you learned in college, or during your time at NASA, or any of your other jobs that you find the most useful? Which ones do you use the most?

The field of aerospace and defense is very complex. The systems are very complex. There is no way for one person to know everything. You have to rely on many other people with specific skill sets. It’s not like you write an iPhone application and observe whether it works or not; in the aerospace business, people’s lives [are on the line]. So, you have to make sure that things that you design work properly and safely. You have to be really structured and systematic. Millions of components go into a complex machine or a vehicle, and you have to do the design, manufacturing, and testing in a really structured way. There are standards that you have to follow. You have to be disciplined every day. As you get to a certain point in your career, when you’re moving up, you got to make sure that you’re empowering your team members, giving them responsibility, giving them a chance to prove themselves. Even if they fail, make sure that they learn from the mistakes so they become better at what they do. Create a vision; everybody has to have a common vision and you have to have their buy in. For example, for ISS, everybody is working together so homogeneously, in harmony. And that’s because everybody wants to make sure that the Space Station is completed, it’s operated safely, and new technology and research development is good for humanity. That is creating a common vision.

There has recently been some discussion in the European Union about the use of AI and a social point system. I believe they’re trying to ban it. What do you think about the use of AI in certain ways?

My contribution to research was done 20–30 years ago; so, I may not be up to speed with what’s going on in the AI area. These technological advancements need to be looked at carefully for their social, cultural, and technological impacts. In the U.S., a lot of people are employed in the AI and automation areas. So, are we really replacing these individuals with artificial intelligence and automation? And if we do so, what are the implications on the society? I think it needs to be balanced. I think that has to be some sort of a global initiative. How are we going to deal with AI? Because technology develops very fast. We as humans are not like that. We go to universities, we get education, and we continue to learn. But we also have our lives, families, and commitments to people around us. So, the development in AI or automation should be carefully orchestrated to make sure that the normal functioning society can catch up with those developments. We do not want to create a crisis in the society by replacing humans with robots. You have to make sure that it’s paced carefully.

In my lectures on AI, they say that technological advances in AI won’t creep up on us. So, it shouldn’t be that almost everyone gets unemployed because of the rise of AI. But, in automatic vehicles, it is the case right now that quite a few Uber drivers are seeing those impacts.

Yes. And what are we doing for those people? What are you giving those people, or how are you empowering them with new skills to make sure that they still stay employed, they still function as normal humans or individuals, adding value to society, who can still take care of their responsibilities, their families, and their loved ones. That’s the job of the governments. Because if you leave this to the free-operating, corporate environment, they will go to the extreme. It’s governments’ job to make sure that things are regulated, the society is protected, and people are given a chance to get properly adjusted.

Can you tell me about what you are doing right now in your job?

I started my career as an instrumentation engineer; I worked on instrumentation systems for flight test aircraft. That was the stage that I progressed through technical fields, and I became a project engineer. Now, I’m a program manager. Program manager is a person who is ultimately responsible for the proper execution of a program on time, given the schedule and budget constraints; that is my day-to-day job. I’m the person responsible for a program. There are multiple projects under that program. Those projects are mostly performed by different function groups in the company such as engineering, operations, quality, and aftermarket. Under our program, we have five P&Ls (profit and loss centers). We assign a program manager to each P&L. I’m one of the program managers for a P&L. The budget is $100 million plus, and it is a 10-year program. We’re halfway through, we have another four or five years to go to finish the program. It is a very complex program. So, I have to make sure that not only the program is executed according to the schedule, but also we stay very close with our customers, because at the end of the day, whatever we develop, whatever we manufacture, we need to make sure it meets the customer needs and requirements. So, I have to manage not only the internal program execution, but also the communication and interface with our customers and suppliers, some of them are international suppliers.

What do you think about people such as Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos coming into the aerospace scene and taking over with their private companies?

It’s a good thing. It’s always been the case; the government establishes the foundation, like Internet, and then the private companies come in and find new applications, new areas, new fields to apply the new technology. In the past, when we launched space shuttles and other rockets, it was NASA playing a bigger role and taking all the cost, engineering, and integration responsibilities. But the United States government enables private companies to do the work as much as possible. So, this is along that direction. The government thinks if we create an environment where private companies get into the business and compete, it will eventually be the best option for the people because it will give you higher quality products at a cheaper cost to the taxpayer. Having Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos come into the space business is good because hopefully it will create a competition, it will make things more efficient and generate better technology. But they will have to make sure that the safety is fully practiced. These private companies are profit-driven, meaning they want to maximize their profit. But we still have to make sure that as these companies evolve and grow, they follow the standard safety and quality protocols and operate in a safe environment.

Could you give some advice to students interested in the field of aerospace, AI, or budget management?

First of all, do the best you can at school. Learn the subjects well because it’s a special time of your life where you can focus 100% on learning. When you start in the professional field, the schedules are crazy and you may not find the same opportunity again to learn or relearn. So, make sure that you maximize your studies at school, stay close to your professors, do additional research in the summer. Use those opportunities in a company where you work for a few months or for a few weeks, you learn what’s going on in those fields. If you’re doing summer practices, try different fields. Go for an aerospace company one summer, work for a medical company another summer and see which ones you really are interested in. Your targets and goals will always change. And they need to change. If they are not changing, there’s something wrong there. But establish goals. Important thing is to get a mentor. When you start working, look around yourself and then pick individuals and ask for mentorship. Although you’re learning on the job and getting experience, those mentors can also give you additional insight into career door. You got to set your expectations really well. You may not find aerospace and space as dynamic and fast-paced as the computer industry, or artificial intelligence. So, make sure that you’re aligned to that. Decisions take time to make and to get there; so, you have to have all the facts, and then you can move on to the next step. So, don’t expect a fast-paced environment. The environment in software companies is very complicated, you will not know everything. So, just be prepared for that. But it’s very rewarding. You feel like you really add value to the society, you get the satisfaction working in the aerospace field. Again, I cannot comment too much on the AI field. I think it’s the future. And work hard. In the industry, no matter how smart you are, you will not know everything. The knowledge base is huge, and everybody has access to that knowledge base. But to differentiate yourself, have a good education, focus on your studies, be disciplined, and work hard. And don’t be afraid to take risks. Even if you fail, you will learn from your mistake. I’m not saying just take foolish risks. Take calculated risks, show yourself, and learn from your mistakes.

Interview excerpts have been lightly edited for clarity and readability and approved by the interviewee. This article only aims to share personal opinions and learnings and does not constitute the interviewee’s current or former employer(s)’ position on any of the topics discussed.