Tony Zhou
Hello, listeners. Welcome to our final episode of the Edge of Space series. Throughout the series, we’ve shared conversations with the leadership team of IBM Space Tech. I am Tony Zhou, a longitude Fellow at Yale University.

Blake Moya
And I’m Blake Moya, a Longitude fellow at the University of Texas at Austin. We hope you’ve enjoyed this series as much as we have and in this episode, Tony and I will discuss a few highlights and topics that stood out to us.

Tony
I had the pleasure of interviewing Naeem Altaf, who is the CTO of IBM Space Tech. In our two part episode, he talked a lot about what it meant to build a strong foundation in the field of computer science and how you could leverage that skill set to create a lot of impact. In addition, he also talked about mentorship, which is something that I think would provide tremendous value to our listeners. What are your thoughts as someone who is now you know, in grad school, to build that foundation and having that mentorship?

Blake
Yeah, I think building that foundation in technology, I think is related to something that Minsik told me briefly to say in my interview, I think we’ve closed out with his advice to students and young people to stay on top of trends. And I see a link there too, you want to have a technological foundation for your skills as you develop. You know, in grad school, you come in, because you have a specialized skill set, like that you want to advance. You specialize a little bit and then you’re welcomed into this place where you have a bunch of other people who have all been specializing as well. And the goal is to guide and be guided, you’re helping other people, you’re teaching the other students in your cohort, as well as being guided, instructed by all of the faculty members. And so there’s a big community experience of mentorship where everyone’s mentor and a mentee, that’s all developed off of the commonality of, you know, we know a lot about this specific thing, and we want to know more. So I think it’s very interesting to see the translation from my experience in grad school to hearing Naeem talk about mentorship in industry, because they really are very different environments. In industry, you might have to, you know, go and seek out mentors in a way that in grad school, it’s obviously expected to have and be a mentor, because it’s a college, you know, that’s what it’s for.

Tony
Yeah, I mean, I definitely agree, there are definitely parallels. Do you feel that now that you’re in grad school, you’re really digging deep into a specific topic, or do you still feel you’re learning pretty broadly then have options of where you want to dig deep?

Blake
I think it’s both because at least with my field, I came in to statistics with experience in statistics, but not with like, you know, my previous degree was in neuroscience. So I knew about experimental design and all that stuff. But I had no idea how broad the field really was. So as I’m doing my research and diving deep into the specific aspects of statistics that I find interesting, I’ve learned so much more about how much other stuff that there is to do in that field. I think that that’s another thing with, you know, trying to do, this my first series with Longitudes, right? So one thing that I’m learning here, while talking to people about space tech is that every field is like that, you think that you know a little bit about something. And then when you get to talk with these people, you find out how much you didn’t know that you didn’t know, which is something I certainly felt after my conversation with Minsik about edge computing. I thought I thought I knew a little bit I fancy myself a programmer, but it is a very technical field and, you know, you get the sense that with Minsik designing of operating systems on this fragile system that’s going to be in space. You don’t want it to break down, you sort of get an understanding of the depth of knowledge that he must have for IBM to trust in his expertise to get this thing working.

Tony
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, I remember hearing Naeem mentioned when he began collaborating with people from NASA and astrophysicists, he was saying, the amount of knowledge that they knew like blew his mind, because, you know, doing all of that stuff was so foreign to him. But he said he knew that with their domain knowledge, they also needed someone who understood, you know, the tech and like the software, to create these products that would advance this whole sort of mission or objective in space tech. He kind of found that’s where he could create value, and he’s been there ever since.

Blake
Yeah, I think that collaboration is a huge lesson to learn from a lot of the stories from Longitude, in a lot of, you know, the big ideas that people find interesting are that you have a collaboration of different people with a huge domain of knowledge in a field. And when they cross paths, you get this wonderful intersection of ideas. So space and computer programming, which are obviously intimately connected anyways, but getting to really see computer programming on the level of learning, like not, oh, I’m going to program a rocket that knows where it’s going to go. But, oh, I’m learning how to program and how to interface and speak with a computer. And simultaneously, I’m learning how to interface and speak with what’s above the sky, you know, it’s over my head. And so I think that those kinds of intersections really brew up some good ideas, it really gets people thinking about things that they wouldn’t have thought of before. So I think it’s a great source of inspiration and innovation.

Tony
Yeah, I mean, I think our time is limited, right? So no one has all the time in the world to learn everything. And so that’s where we do need to be able to leverage our skill set and collaborate with others who are experts in their respective fields. And, you know, try to find a level of synergy that would that allow for some of the great innovations in this world. So the next person that we had the privilege of interviewing was Sarah, who is a NASA biologist

Blake
A microbiologist. My interest in her interview with Quint was, I saw that she spoke about her inspiration when she was young, and that she was, you know, deeply involved in space and had NASA as the goal ever since she went to, I believe, was like a space class at a museum they had, where she lived. And you know, I just find that kind of inspiring young people and seeing that they can have on the trajectory of someone’s life. I really do enjoy seeing that. That was good to hear. And obviously, she has a very principal drive in her work and space. Very glad for her to have made it made her dream happen.

Tony
Yeah, to see success stories is always it’s always like a feel good moment. Do you do anything to help you zone in throughout the day?

Blake
My, my method of zoning in is my inspiration and what I do is I just like making things work, you know, so I’m primarily a programmer. So I’ll make sure that the idea is really well fleshed out before I really get fired up about it. Because once I see where the break points could be, then it’s like, oh, now it’s like a, you know, a puzzle. I think my big inspiration is not as grand or not as focused, as Sarah’s would be, maybe I need to be looking for one a little harder.

Tony
I think it depends, right? I think everybody operates differently.

Blake
Well, before I was just going to talk about Naeem’s, because I think his is quite grand but what about you?

Tony
Me? I think I think I have quite the imagination sometimes so I try to complement that with routine and habits that move me forward towards wherever my imagination is taking me. And that I think is sort of like big picture envisioning of whatever it could be professional life, personal life.

Blake
Yeah, I think people really downplay the importance of imagination in professional life. Because you sort of think imagination is something that you use, if you’re an inventor, or tinkerer or an artist, you know, that’s where your imagination really comes into play. But I don’t think that’s true. I think that everyone benefits from letting their imagination loose, and just seeing where it takes them. And to get to Naeem, because I’m just very fond of his motivations, his imagination is one that I think, you know, it comes out in the way he talks about things. I think he’s very driven towards this humanitarian idea, this humanitarian goal in his work, you know, the mode of the Endurance project of making things accessible, making space accessible, I think probably is his biggest drive. And it was really nice to get to hear that because it’s, it’s motivating.

Tony
Yeah, I mean, he, he really emphasized having this creator mindset, and just always looking for ways to create things. And I think you have to have quite the imagination to to always, you know, be searching for that. Right?

Blake
Yeah, it takes imagination to see where the path is going.

Tony
Absolutely. And, I think you need to have a level of creativity or imagination, laced with like confidence and imagine where a field could be going right because if you want to let say trail blaze in I feel or even if you’re just looking for ways to be creative, there are a lot of things that are not out right now. Right. So like, you have to be able to, like, look into the past and learn from the steps that have been taken and then try to, you know, formulate your own understanding of it to go forward with it.

Blake
Yeah, huge innovations in a field don’t happen because everything, you know, neatly collided by coincidence, they haven’t, because someone with imagination, thought it could happen and tried to make it happen, and to work. And I think, unless I’m gonna mistake this anecdote here, I hope this isn’t an urban legend, I’m going to share. But isn’t it that the invention of the cell phone was inspired by Star Trek because they had small communication devices? And the guy who started assembling this mobile phone had watched Star Trek as a kid. So the imagination of the Star Trek producers to you know, have these basically walkie-talkies get to get to this and who then thinks, oh, you know, that’s cool. I wonder if there’s a way to actually make that real, and here’s how I’m going to try to make that real. And now, it’s in everybody’s pocket.

Tony
Yeah, I think I also remember reading that somewhere.

Blake
So yeah, I don’t know if that’s gonna be one of those silly fun facts, but I believe it, I trust with my heart.

Tony
Yeah, yeah. Where are some places where you draw inspiration from because, you know, for me, even though I, you know, code and stuff, I actually try to draw a lot of inspiration from like, the arts or sports, you know, kind of figures that I follow, and how and how they do things.

Blake
Yeah, I, I look at art a lot, because in statistics, graphs have a very central location in the field, how do you communicate your data, and I take pride in my graphics and the plots that I make. So I definitely try to keep an eye on art and see kind of what people are into and looking for now to make sure that they have that sense of style to give them a little pop.

Tony
Very into the aesthetics with your work

Blake
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Hey, it makes a difference.

Tony
Yeah, I mean, definitely. Okay, so the final person in our series was your conversation with Minsik.

Blake
Yeah, we had very good talk about technology. Yeah, you know, I mentioned this up top, just because I saw a place to bring it in. But I do kind of want to focus on it more Minsik’s advice, after speaking and seeing his expertise come through on edge computing, his advice, by the end of it for people listening is to stay on top of the trends and see what’s new, and what’s happening in, you know, whatever tech is relevant to your field. And I think that that’s really good advice. Because I think my efforts to do that in statistics have really helped me a lot. In short, I started learning how to write GPU code to parallelize operations. And a lot of people in my statistics department are new to that, right. So now I have this Oh, hey, like, I have this domain of knowledge in parallel computing. And you have this domain of knowledge in algorithms that can be parallelized. Let’s meet up and see what we can get out there. So when I when I heard him give that advice, I was like, yeah, that helped me, I think that we should really say that loudly, whatever tech is, or might be relevant to what you do know it, because once you have the tool in your hand, you have a much bigger view of what’s possible to build with it.

Tony
For sure, you know, I would say like doing the right thing

Blake
I know, I was like, well, here’s, you know, this guy’s where I want to be. And here he is talking, in a way similar to how I think maybe, maybe my path will go in a similar direction as his has.

Tony
Yeah, maybe I am connecting the dots the right way.

Blake
Exactly. It was very uplifting. Yeah, that was very fun conversation. I mean, just when you think of the scale of actually putting something up into space, and just the depth of that problem, you know, trying to maintain that contact, keep that communication keep the device functioning. It’s a really good puzzle. Like I said, I’m puzzle motivated.

Tony
Yeah. Problem solving motivated. Yeah. Are you yourself, are you super interested in in the field of space?

Blake
I am more interested in computers than space itself. I like that intersection of, you know, if we go through all this to get a computer system, you know, or a network to work well on Earth. What if we threw one of the components in space? It’s just such a huge chain that it’s like, well, how do they do that? Now I have to know. Do you have what kind of tech do you use? And is there any kind of technology or skill that you think has really benefited you that you were lucky to have learned when you did

Tony
Right now, I think there’s so much data out there in medicine. And people are trying to figure out ways to analyze that and use tools such as machine learning to interpret it in a meaningful way. Because I think there’s such minor room for error if you’re trying to, let’s say, create a new drug, or let’s say, publish on health outcomes research to to benefit, you know, patient health, that you really have to get it right. And sometimes it’s not even, let’s say, the algorithm, sometimes it’s the data because in health care, there’s just so many features or, you know, like variables to figure out

Blake
Very high dimensional data, and a lot of it de-identified in ways that are not conducive to summarizing.

Tony
But then there aren’t that many samples. And so, you know, in healthcare research, sometimes you just have like, a few 100 samples, or a few 100.

Blake
And then 1000 columns, 1000 variables.

Tony
Yeah, especially for like rare diseases. And so I think that’s something right now that researchers or even people in industry, academia, both just trying to figure out how we’re going to interpret that data, because there’s some volumes of data out there. And we should be able to find some insight towards that. You know, the vision is that precision medicine will be at a point where each person can receive that tailored treatment, but it takes quite a bit away.

Blake
There’s a ways to go. And you think that machine learning is going to be one of the tools that helps build that future.

Tony
Yes, yes. But I think right now, even is to just get everybody to the same communication level, even of like, what is machine learning, right? And what isn’t impossible, because, you know, sometimes people who are just hearing the buzzwords of Machine, AI are like, Oh my God, that means that you could solve anything, right? It’s like, no, not really. So it’s being able to bridge that connection. Because earlier, we talked about having expertise in different areas, and then kind of like, combining that to be able to work at this intersection. But I think when you do combine that when you collaborate, both people need to be somewhat on the same page, because then you’re able to discuss ideas and have an understanding of problems.

Blake
Yeah, and I think communication is key has been my guiding word for a lot. That’s why I especially was, you know, excited to come here to the Longitudes podcast because I was like, here’s the interface that I can get from academia to industry professionals. I want to, wanted to learn what they knew and hear what they had to say. And so it was nice to have this out to be able to do that build that communication

Tony
At the top of the skill set is communication skills.

Blake
This brings us to the end of our episode in the Edge of Space series. Tune in next for our series on ocean research.

Tony
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