Jaena Kim
At the intersection of ideas and action, this is Longitude Sound Bytes bringing innovative insights from around the world directly to you.

I’m Jaena Kim, Longitude Fellow and law student from the University of Ottawa. You’re just in time to embark on the 4^th series of Longitudes of Imagination with some of the most incredible masterminds behind the NASA Gateway Program. The Gateway is building a space station that provides vital support for long-term human presence on the Moon and as a staging point for future deep space exploration, such as sending the first astronauts to Mars.

Keep launching in to this episode for conversation highlights with Emma Lehnhardt, the Program Planning and Control Manager for NASA’s Gateway Program, and her expert insight on how pursuing outer space missions beyond our planet has actually unified in many ways, humanity on Earth.

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Emma Lehnhardt
My name is Emma Lehnhardt. I work at the NASA Johnson Space Center on the Gateway program, which will be a small human tended Space Station in orbit around the moon. My job is basically the Business Operations Manager of the program. I directly support our program manager, Dan Hartman, and provide all the business services across the program that keep the trains on the tracks. Everything that’s not engineering or developing the systems necessary for spaceflight kind of falls into my shop. And technically, my title is program planning and control manager.

Jaena
Could you summarize- I know you just summarized the Gateway project, but the Gateway project is also part of a bigger project, the Artemis project. Would you mind summarizing that in a couple sentences for our audience?

Emma
Absolutely. So the Artemis campaign is an initiative of NASA to return to the moon, to land the first woman and first person of color on the moon, and also to establish all of the capabilities that we need to explore the moon and set us up for further exploration beyond. Artemis is in Greek mythology, the twin sister of Apollo. So it seemed very poetic and a great name for our return to the moon in this generation.

Jaena
Before I dive a bit into the details of what you do on a day to day basis, could you just explain to us what the significance of space exploration is, and how helpful that space research and everything that happens in space can actually be transferred down to help the people down on Earth?

Emma
Absolutely. So space is and has always been inspirational across the world. And particularly with everything that NASA has been doing over the past 20 plus years in low Earth orbit. It symbolizes the way humanity can come together with the international partnerships that we’ve established on the International Space Station. It encourages and inspires students around the world to pursue STEM degrees, science, technology, engineering, and math. And it also expands our human reach and our economic sphere of influence outside of the earth. So that’s one of the reasons I’m so excited about Gateway. I see it as some of those first steps towards kind of a Star Trek future or what we can envision in the TV show The Expanse.

Jaena
I love that you talked about the science fiction, I think it was a TV series, but also your expanse within NASA. So your journey with NASA has been really incredible. I believe you interned there during your studies. And then later on in your career, you quickly advanced into your role today. Were there any integral or memorable moments that really got you to the position, notably one of leadership, a woman in leadership, which we’re still fighting to see on a more equal platform, especially in STEM and in STEAM? If there were, is there any advice that you could share with all of our listeners, regardless of gender? And one memorable moment?

Emma
So yeah, let me start a little bit with my story. So I’ve always been a space nerd, have always loved space. And I originally thought that I wanted to study astronomy. But honestly, the math for me was very challenging. And I ended up unfortunately believing that I was just bad at it. And I changed my field of study. I still maintained a minor in astronomy when I was in undergrad, but I majored in politics. And that combination of politics and astronomy really set me up well for a space policy degree, which is what I got my master’s in. And then I was able to go to the International Space University, where I learned even more about the International Space community and what it means to do truly international interdisciplinary work in our space fields. I ended up, after those two programs of study, as a consultant to NASA, to the Air Force, to DARPA, which is the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, the Sci-Fi branch of the Department of Defense in the United States, and also consulting to private industry. And then I ended up becoming a direct employee of the government, a civil servant at NASA headquarters. I was there for about 10 years working on strategic planning, and also the budget of NASA. When I was at NASA headquarters, I had felt this whole time that I could contribute to the mission. But, you know, when I introduce myself to people, I often say, Yes, Hi, I’m Emma, I work at NASA, but I’m not an astronaut. I’m not a rocket scientist. I’m not an engineer. So you’re almost introducing yourself in the negative, right. But my contributions really were important. And one of my key memories, which is what you asked me for, was, I was doing some work implementing a law at NASA, which wasn’t the sexiest or most fun thing to do. It’s called the Government Performance Results Act Modernization Act, or GPRAMA. I was going through the results of our implementation of a strategic assessment of all of our objectives at the agency, and our Associate Administrator at the time—and I actually presented that work to the White House—he pulled out of his pocket a slide that I had prepared for him with the results of the analysis. And I looked over at him in the meeting, and he had handwritten notes all over it, which were very apparently written over multiple periods of time and useful for him as a cheat sheet. This felt like something that we were doing in DC to just take care of it and let real people do the real work out there, but here is the Associate Administrator of NASA really using this work to understand the work of the agency and to communicate our work to the White House. That was such a cool moment for me. And I ended up talking to him about that a little bit later on. And he said, Emma, you have to understand that essentially what you are doing when you are implementing policies, when you’re working on budget or the PP and C work of the agency, really is systems engineering in another vein. And that was a transformational moment for me and the way I think about my work today.

Jaena
I love that. I can really resonate with that because prior to my law degree, I majored in classical flute performance. And as a musician, I knew that I always wanted to do something that created a social impact and social change, as I am a child of immigrants where, you know, my parents really sacrificed a lot. And I saw the Canadian society really embrace us and help us integrate. And so I knew I wanted to give back. But as a musician, I kind of felt confined to the stage. And it felt like a one sided relationship with my audience. And so when I looked around to see what else I could share, maybe that also had kind of a performance aspect, I naturally inclined towards law. And so I really see the parallel there where we’re able to really help with something that we’re passionate about. But it may not be what people necessarily think, what artists do or what NASA does, and I think really highlights, which is a great segue, I know that you really helped in the program’s implementation and approach under agency space flight policies. And that was something that stood out to me as a last unit. Could I ask you for a brief explanation on it, and the importance of taking policy into consideration when doing really, really big missions, especially something such as long-term space exploration?

Emma
Absolutely. So yes, that in particular is a document at NASA called NPR 71 20.5. NPR stands for NASA Procedural Requirements. And this book can be thought of as the Bible at NASA for how you implement spaceflight programs and projects, particularly human spaceflight programs and projects at NASA. One of the interesting things about my job is that we are building a next generation space station, right? The Gateway is a successor in a way, it will be much smaller than the International Space Station, but leverages a lot of the work and processes and program implementation that we’ve done on the International Space Station, but the International Space Station predated this NPR 71 20.5. So when that program was initially established, they did not have to comply or really even think about these higher level NASA procedures. I’m a little bit jealous in a way because they didn’t have to go through the pain that we did. But that was the interesting thing about starting up Gateway as a program, was okay, now we have to think about a large program with lots of pieces and individual projects underneath it that are tightly coupled, that will be developed and deployed incrementally, one at a time or over time. And how does that type of a program fit within a NASA procedural requirement that is in many ways written for individual missions? So that that was what we wrestled with. And I think we came up with some good, maybe not ingenious, but effective and streamlining measures to implement those high level policies and procedures for Gateway.

Jaena
So I know at the beginning you explained what you do. And I can’t remember if it was in this interview or another one, you explained that your role was kind of like the CFO and the COO. So I also know that the Gateway Project is an international project. Do you work with international partners? If so, have you faced differing cultural or language barriers? And how do you unite such a diverse group?

Emma
Oh, that’s a great question. Yeah. Similar to the International Space Station Program, yes, we are a multilateral program, we established Memoranda of Understanding with the Canadian Space Agency, the European Space Agency, and the Japanese Aerospace Exploration Agency, the space agency of the government of Japan. We established those at the end of calendar year 2020, but really our international partners have been a part of our program from the beginning, even some of the very initial ideas of what a Gateway could be. And today, with the establishment of those MOUs and how we operate the program, the partners are integral members of our program. So they are with us every step of the way, in all of our program level boards, which are the meetings where we make technical and programmatic decisions. There have not been, in my experience, any cultural barriers to overcome. I think we are all coming into this understanding that we and our governments believe that this is an important mission to accomplish, and something that we can do together with both international and commercial partners. But there have been some interesting logistical issues to work out when you are working with NASA centers all across the country, contractors all across the country, and partners all over the world, honestly, just setting up meetings with perfect time zones, and understanding what happens when daylight savings occurs in United States, for example, one of those interesting logistical challenges to overcome and just something you always have to have in the forefront of your mind. Thinking in multiple time zones all the time. The other one possibly of interest for you from a legal perspective is export control. So export control for us is definitely a challenge in the program. Because our international partners are, like I said, with us every step of the way. That means they’re with us when we’re having technical conversations all the time. So everything is an export and needs to be export controlled. Within the program, we are looking for efficiencies and ways that this won’t bog us down too much so we can continue moving an agile pace. But it is something that just has to be accommodated.

Jaena
So I know you mentioned an aggressive timeline. And I know that was a big part of the push to get people on the moon by 2024. And I believe you also talked about somewhere else that you really had to change the architecture of how the team worked to meet this timeline. Does this mean that if you’re working with fewer people, did this result in a heavier workload, and how do you balance something that’s pressing and so important, but also not burning out so that you’re able to deliver the finest quality of work right to the end?

Emma
That is the exact question that’s been on my mind quite a bit, particularly during the pandemic. We are indeed a much smaller team than many traditional program and project sizes of teams at NASA. Within my own team, for example, we are pretty lean. And that means you have people wearing multiple hats, doing two or in some cases three jobs, that may be the same type of job at the program level and the project level, or that may be entirely different jobs. Our export control lead for the program, for example, who works for me, is also the resources and risk integrator for one of our control account managers, a systems engineering and integration office. So she is constantly overloaded. And that’s true for almost every member of our team. On the one hand, there are benefits there with so many people taking on critical roles and not having too many cooks in the kitchen, we’re able to move very quickly and drive to decisions quickly. But burnout is absolutely a concern. So right now it’s all about trying to find the right amount of balance across the team, and where do we really need to add resources to offload people before they get burned out. But it’s a difficult thing, honestly, even for myself, because we pour our hearts and souls into these programs and projects because we believe in them so much. And it is easy to find yourself just continuing to work nights and weekends because you want to accomplish this amazing thing. So you also have to- every individual is responsible for monitoring what they’re doing and raising your hand when they need help.

Jaena
Do you think with a pandemic, you know, a lot of us have to quarantine oftentimes in our own rooms, in periods of time we’ve never been confined to before. And I can’t imagine that would be much more different than traveling on a spacecraft for six to nine months to get to Mars. Did the pandemic serve any helpful learning opportunities for the people at NASA or maybe even individually that really brought in this extra layer of imagination that you could implement and make the Gateway project better out of such an unfortunate global event?

Emma
Absolutely, there were some distinct benefits that we saw internal to the Gateway program. So I mentioned that we are a multicenter program. The program office resides at the Johnson Space Center. Our power propulsion element is managed out of the Glenn Research Center in Ohio. Our Deep Space logistics project is managed by the Kennedy Space Center in Florida. We have team members at the Marshall Space Flight Center in Alabama, for example. And we saw pretty quickly that when you move from a center of gravity of many of the program leadership members in a conference room at JSC face-to-face, and all of the other center members on the phone without video connectivity, that once we were in the pandemic environment, and everybody was on equal footing virtually with cameras, we actually developed better relationships across the center teams. And you know, we’re all in the same virtual room as opposed to some of us being in the room and everyone else being on the phone. So now that we’re moving back into a hybrid environment, it’s going to be all about maintaining that frame of mind, because we want to maintain those connections that we built as a virtual team. And I think that’s going to be all about just keeping that forefront in your mind and pursuing information technology solutions that will help us just like cameras and conference rooms. It sounds simple. It’s something that we have not had previously at NASA really across the board. And we’ll be pursuing that for our program.

Jaena
Yay. Something I know that you do on your free time is you’re an advanced open water scuba diver. And our last Longitude of Imagination series was with the Schmidt Ocean Institute. With this back and forth between ocean and space, I think us, Longitude fellows, are learning that there is some sort of connection there. The same sort of people who are interested in space often have an interest in the ocean. People who work at NASA as are open water scuba divers. Was there any particular reason that drew you to this hobby? Do you think it helps you become a better leader in the workplace that you have something that’s- not that I’m tying you down to space all day, every day-

Emma
All day every day. [laughter] I am a little tied to space all day every day, especially being married to a fellow space nerd. But yes, there was a specific reason. So I have pretty significant motion sickness issue. So I personally never had the thought in my head that I could be a scuba diver. My husband is an emergency physician by training, and he is someone who has always wanted to be an astronaut. So he pursued multiple things like becoming a private pilot, joining the Canadian military, and scuba diving in the pursuit of developing himself to be a better potential candidate to be an astronaut someday. When he started his scuba diving training, I decided to join him because we decided to try motion sickness medication that comes in the form of a patch that you wear behind your ear. And luckily for me, that worked, and I was able to complete the training. And it’s now something that we try to do when we travel all over the world. I very much love it. But more on a day to day basis, the thing that I find that grounds me and helps me in my day to day work and balancing in my life is exercise. So running, spinning, weightlifting, yoga, I do a little bit of everything and try to do at least something every day. And that has been very helpful.

Jaena
Just being mindful of our time. I have two wrap up questions. The first I would like to start with, I almost think there was this myth, which I think is slowly being dispelled, that science was not a very creative field, it was very square and rigid, and that maybe science and creativity, being imaginative in science, did not mesh. But arguably, I would say science is inherently creative. Someone would have imagined themselves flying out to the moon one day, which is what you guys at NASA made happen. And so could you speak a little bit about the role of imagination in in science?

Emma
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, it’s not cut and dry at all. The most important thing in my opinion for anyone pursuing or working in scientific and mathematical fields is a curious mind. “What if” is the driving question to so much that we do, and I think you’re right, it is helpful to be able to imagine this future so that you can execute it and bring it to life. And for me, okay, so I have terrible motion sickness, I am never going to be an astronaut. But it is helpful in my daily life to think about what it would be like to live on the Gateway Space Station in microgravity in a deep space environment for a two-week period with only one other fellow crew member, for example. Being able to picture that so clearly in your mind helps you to bring it to life.

Jaena
That was really beautiful. The last question I have for you, kind of broad and maybe cheesy, but as someone who works, that’s such big budgets and such amazing people, and you being an inspirational female leader that I even look up to, how do you define success?

Emma
All right, I’m gonna get real personal with you here. As you can see on the video, here I am, I’m blushing pretty significantly today. I don’t know if that’s because I’ve been under the weather this week. But it’s something that I’ve dealt with my entire life and that I have always been ashamed of, to be honest with you. But I am in this moment defining success in that I have been able to stay connected with you, I have been able to answer your questions from my heart and from my head without a trigger of a fight or flight response, knowing seeing in the camera that I am turning red, that that for me is very much a significant successful moment. And something that I’ve been trying to celebrate every time I see it happening that I’m able to just get past it. Just keep going. No one’s gonna judge you because you’re blushing, right? So, but you know, here I am. I’ve achieved quite a bit in my career so far. I’m almost 40 years old. And I think it’s important for women in leadership positions to acknowledge that even when you have achieved your bar of success, however you measure that, there is still a tendency for negative self-talk. And you have to confront that and work on it every single day. And I think it’s important for us all to acknowledge that that occurs and it’s a challenge and something you have to work at.

Jaena
If it helps, the podcast is video free. So they have to believe you when you say you blush, I would say you look very beautiful and very normal. Thank you for sharing such an intimate story. I think it really is important and I think a great takeaway for our listeners, that success is really personal. And I really love that you kept us grounded with your piece of advice and I will definitely be taking that forward.

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Jaena
Preparing to interview Emma who has not only led NASA Headquarters’ $20 billion dollar budget formulation process but helped implement history-worthy space policy that will protect both this generation and the innumerable ones to come, had me more nervous than when I performed for 15,000 people!

I hope this episode inspires our listeners who’ve struggled to transform their passions into a career. Emma’s dream of working in astronomy wasn’t realized by becoming a NASA astronaut or rocket scientist. Instead, she forged her own path by imagining ways to imbue her strengths into the field of astronomy and becoming an irreplaceable team member of NASA.

For me? Litigation has become my alternative to performing – the court stage and common law repertoire allows me to still pursue what I love and help those around me.

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Does space exploration strike you with awe? Or its infinite possibilities instil you with wonder? We’d love to hear your thoughts! Connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, or LinkedIn, and visit Longitude.site for this episode transcript. Join us next time for more unique insights on Longitude Sound Bytes.